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Author Topic:   Mapping the Phantom Lady Archives
Dr. Van Thorp
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posted February 21, 2003 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Van Thorp   Click Here to Email Dr. Van Thorp        Reply w/Quote
Do you think that DC would publish Fox Comics material? Their depiction of Sandra Knight has always been the Quality Comics version.

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profh0011
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posted February 21, 2003 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for profh0011   Click Here to Email profh0011        Reply w/Quote
Yes, the Quality PL had the green & yellow costume, the Fox PL had the blue & red.

Considering DC went out of their way to stop Bill Black from using the Fox PL, I'd say they oughta go ahead and reprint her stories. To get around the copyright hassles, Bill Black did some intriguing (and bizarre) re-workings and re-formatrting of the Fox art so he could publish them as "new" artwork. It was strange, as a few of the same stories were ALSO reprinted in the Verotik book. The Verotik book had the stories in their original page format (although probably a bit smaller-- as are ALMOST EVERY Golden Age reprint) but the coloring had some SEVERE problems that had me shaking my head. (I just published my 1st COLOR comic last August-- and I can tell you, I had far fewer technical p[roblems than Verotik has had between the PHANTOM LADY and BLUE BOLT books I've seen from them!)

All that said... MY favorite PL is Dee Tyler-- the one from ACTION COMICS WEEKLY! (What a CUITE!!!) And of course, she's wearing the green & yellow outfit. Or, as I sometimes like to say, "THAT's a nice outfit you're almost wearing!"

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Owen Cardiff Darcy
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posted February 21, 2003 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Owen Cardiff Darcy        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Van Thorp:
Do you think that DC would publish Fox Comics material?

If Bill Black is to be believed, no. In his response to my email, he said, "If DC reprints any of the Fox/Ajax stories that AC has published, they are in breech of the law. Looks like another legal hassle in the offing! And, no, DC does not have the right to reprint Fox/Ajax stories. I have reprinted almost all of them already." But Black also says DC doesn't even own Phantom Lady in the first place: "DC never 'bought' PHANTOM LADY. They stole the use of her since she was not a property of Quality when they bought the Quality characters."

In response to my questions about the Ajax/Farrell issues of PHANTOM LADY and WONDER BOY, Black referred me to the Phantom Lady index in AC Comics' GOLDEN AGE GREATS VOL. 2, but as profh0011 has said in a previous post, this index does not have page counts. Oh, well.

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profh0011
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posted February 22, 2003 02:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for profh0011   Click Here to Email profh0011        Reply w/Quote
Yep, it appears to be what some might call another ne of those "gray" areas. My impression was that Black felt perfectly in the right to reprint old PL stories AND do new ones. When DC decided they felt otherwise, they threatened legal action. Rather than pit a one-man operation against a multinational conglomerate, Black thumbed his nose at them by turning PHANTOM LADY into NIGHTVEIL-- who, apparently, has made FAR more appearances in the last 20 years than all the other versions of PHANTOM LADY put together!!

AC has reprinted a pile of the Fox PL stories. I'm not a huge buyer of ACs, though I have a number of them. My main "THING" is that, deep down, I keep wishing either Black would do an ARCHIVE-type book, or that I was in a position to do so for or with him. (Any millionaires wanna finance a publishing venture?? heehee)

Just for reference, here's the PL stories that I have as reprints:

POLICE COMICS #1 -- "Phantom Lady" (no title in the story) -- MILLENNIUM EDITION / 2000

PL #13 -- "The Beauty And The Brain!" -- GOLDEN AGE GREATS #2 / 1994

PL #14 -- "Scoundrels And Scandals!" -- GAG #2 / '94
PL #14 -- "Condemned Venus!" -- PHANTOM LADY (Verotik) / '94
PL #14 -- "A Shroud For The Bride!" -- PL / '94

ALL-TOP COMICS #8 -- "Satan's Cargo!" -- GAG #2 / '94

PL #15 -- "Army Of The Walking Dead!" -- GAG #2 / '94
PL #15 -- "The Red Rain!" -- GAG #2 / '94 and PL / '94

ALL-TOP COMICS #9 -- "The Killer Clown!" -- GOOD GIRL ART COMICS #17 / '94 and PL / '94

PL #16 -- "The Monster In The Pool!" -- PL / '94

PL #17 -- "The Stinging Whip!" -- PL / '94

ALL-TOP COMICS #12 -- "The Subway Slayer!" -- PL / '94

ALL-TOP COMICS #15 -- "The Substitute Cinderella!" -- GOOD GIRL ART QUARTERLY #10 / '92

FOX PHANTOM LADY INDEX -- "Wild Eyes" -- GOOD GIRL ART QUARTERLY #8 / '92

In addition to the Verotik book (which I picked up when it came out), AC had offered one of these "special deals" where you'd get 4 books bagged together as a set. It was when I got that I decided to put together my own PL index, partly so I could use it for reference to be able to go back and re-read the stories in the order they were published! (Like I said, it just drives be batty to see old stories reprinted completely at random all over the place! It's just like the old days-- heh heh. Still, better than not at all-- I guess!)

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profh0011
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posted February 22, 2003 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for profh0011   Click Here to Email profh0011        Reply w/Quote
And now, here's something I really enjoyed when it came out...

ACTION COMICS WEEKLY: PHANTOM LADY (Ed: Mark Waid) / 1988 (no months listed)

636 Daddy's Girl (1) 7pp + Dick Giordano cover

637 Luck Be A Lady (2) 7pp

638 Toast Of The Capitol (3) 7pp

639 Belle Of The Ball (4) 7pp + Kevin Nowlan cover

640 Lady Of The House (5) 7pp

641 Lady Lost (6) 7pp / 42 pp total

All 6 chapters of the serial were by Len Strrazewski / Chuck Austen / Gary Martin (what a team!!) Of all the things in ACW, this was the one I MOST hoped would be spun off into its own series.

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nightwingoracle
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posted February 23, 2003 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for nightwingoracle        Reply w/Quote
I may be wrong on this, but my understanding is that the Fox/Ajax Phantom Lady stories are in public domain, and that's how Bill Black/AC Comics and Verotik wound up getting to reprint them (same as how AC reprints Spy Smasher and other Fawcett stories from time to time as well).

If they are in public domain, then he couldn't stop DC from including them in a Phantom Lady Archives.

I'd welcome a PL Archives series!

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Stan Brown
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posted February 25, 2003 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stan Brown   Click Here to Email Stan Brown        Reply w/Quote
I would like to see some of the PL stories, but most are so short and so unremarkable (the AC reprinted ones, anyway) that I wouldn't want to buy the entire series in 3 archives. I would rather get 1 or 2 volumes of a golden age super heroine sampler, giving 2 or 3 episodes of PL, Liberty Belle, Miss America, Mary Marvel (unless she gets an archive of her own, or with the Marvel Family), Merry (the Gimmick Girl), Spider Widow, and maybe a couple of the early solo Lois Lane stories from Action comics in the late 1940s that pre-dated the Lois Lane comic of the 1950s. Are there any other DC/Quality super heroines who had solo adventures (unlike Hawkgirl and Bulletgirl, who appeared as sidekicks to their boyfriends) who haven't gotten their own archives (as Wonder Woman and Black Canary have)? Heck, maybe throw in a Batwoman story or two from the 1950s.

A sampler like this that gave origin stories, if any, and major appearances would make a good, varied set of 2 or 3 volumes that I would definitely want to buy.

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profh0011
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posted February 27, 2003 02:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for profh0011   Click Here to Email profh0011        Reply w/Quote
"I may be wrong on this, but my understanding is that the Fox/Ajax Phantom Lady stories are in public domain, and that's how Bill Black/AC Comics and Verotik wound up getting to reprint them (same as how AC reprints Spy Smasher and other Fawcett stories from time to time as well). If they are in public domain, then he couldn't stop DC from including them in a Phantom Lady Archives."

Just reading the latest ALTER-EGO today, which spotlights Jerry Iger. This reminded me of what the confusion may be stemming from. Iger's shop "packaged" comics for publishers, among them Quality Comics. Some of Quality's books and characters they created themselves, but PHANTOM LADY was done for them by Iger, and may have been OWNED by Iger, not Quality. (Guesswork on my part, but it seems a possibility.)

At some point, Quality stopped using Iger, and Iger later continued producing new PL stories for Fox, and later still, Ajax. At some point DC seems to have bought out Quality. This may have included the art to their stories, and possibly, the rights to reprint it. But PL had been published by 2 other publishers since then, and DC apparently does not have or have access to any of the later stories. On the other hand, Bill Black has not, to my knowledge, ever reprinted any of the Quality PL stories. It would seem that even though you have a character who appeared in 2 (or 3) distinct runs at different companies, it could be considered that there are, therefore, 2 "different" PLs.

It may seem that Bill Black can't stop DC from reprinting PL, but DC seems to feel THEY can stop Black from doing new PL stories-- which is why AC has been producing NIGHTVEIL stories for at least 20 YEARS now!

A similar situation may apply to BLUE BEETLE-- who was ALSO an Iger shop creation! DC did not appear to have ever bought the Qulaity BB-- but they did buy the character from Charlton. I've read some disputes as to whether the "original" BB that Charlton revived in the 60's-- before Steve Ditko created the NEW BB (Ted Kord) is considered the "same" character as the Quality / Iger character, or not-- legally speaking...

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James Friel
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posted February 27, 2003 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Friel   Click Here to Email James Friel        Reply w/Quote
Blue Beetle comic books were published by Fox, Holyoke, and Charlton before DC bought the Charlton material--but never by Quality.

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profh0011
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posted February 27, 2003 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for profh0011   Click Here to Email profh0011        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for chiming in, James! Easy to see how anybody could get confused (PL and BB were both Iger characters).

...and SOME people actualy think BUGS BUNNY is a DISNEY character! (Or SUPERMAN is a MARVEL character-- sheesh!)

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James Friel
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posted February 27, 2003 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Friel   Click Here to Email James Friel        Reply w/Quote
Why, some people think CAPTAIN MARVEL is a MARVEL character.

hey, wait...

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profh0011
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posted February 27, 2003 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for profh0011   Click Here to Email profh0011        Reply w/Quote
That's nothing. My first "Captain Marvel" comic was from MF Enterprises!

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Scott Nichols
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posted February 27, 2003 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott Nichols   Click Here to Email Scott Nichols        Reply w/Quote
Yikes, that was the Captain Marvel that yelled "Split!" wasn't it. Not precisely a silver age highlight.

I suppose that PL was more of Headlight character than a highlight, now that I think about it.

Well printed editions of any of Matt Baker's series or stories would be welcomed by me.

-Scott

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James Friel
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posted February 28, 2003 01:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for James Friel   Click Here to Email James Friel        Reply w/Quote
One of the headlights of the Golden Age...

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profh0011
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posted February 28, 2003 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for profh0011   Click Here to Email profh0011        Reply w/Quote
Don't you mean "TWO"?

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profh0011
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posted March 07, 2003 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for profh0011   Click Here to Email profh0011        Reply w/Quote
So out of curiosity, who got the PHANTOM LADY action figure?

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